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OREM — Utah Sen. Mike Lee and independent challenger Evan McMullin took digs at each other, specifically on the Constitution, the Capitol rebellion and Donald Trump, during a sometimes heated debate Monday night in the race for Senate. Both candidates have relied on attacks and deflections they’ve used against each other in the news, on social media and in TV ads throughout the contentious campaign, but this time they came face-to-face — for the first and only time this election – at Utah Valley University. The race is one of the most competitive statewide races Utah has seen in years. McMullin hit out at Lee for his White House texts after the 2020 presidential election, saying his “brilliant” effort to find fake voters to keep Trump in office will be his legacy. Lee strongly disagreed with McMullin’s characterization. He said there was not a “spark” of evidence to support the claim and apologized. Lee often turned to look at McMullin with a smile the challenger called a “grin” at one point during the hour-long debate sponsored by the Utah Debate Commission. At another point, Lee pulled the Constitution from his pocket, as he is known to do. McMullin said Lee is using the document as background. Lee said he uses it as a ready reference that his congressional colleagues also appreciate. The positive, pro-Lee audience applauded Lee a few times during the debate and booed McMullin once, prompting moderator Doug Wright to call for quiet. The exchange showed the differences in how Lee and McMullin would approach the job in Washington. Lee said he will continue to vote no on legislation he sees as bad for Utah and the country. Utah, he said, needs to elect a Republican to help the party take control of the Senate to counter President Joe Biden’s progressive policies and rampant spending. McMullin, he said, voted for Biden and the Democratic Party is his “adopted” political party. McMullin said that as an independent he would work with Democrats and Republicans to find solutions in the spirit of Utah GOP Sen. Mitt Romney. He said his vote would be valuable in the Senate because he does not belong to any party. McMullin accused Lee of being beholden to party bosses and special interests. McMullin said he would not be a “demander” for Trump or Biden. Lee said he called out Trump “all the time,” especially on the spending bills. The candidates covered a wide range of topics during the debate. Here are some of them:

Abortion

Since the U.S. Supreme Court returned the abortion decision to the states, McMullin said he wants to find a constructive way forward. She said she is pro-life and opposes extreme laws on both sides of the issue: Those that allow late-term abortions and those that would ban abortions without exceptions. She said she is in favor of providing more contraception and empowering women, children and families to reduce the country’s abortion rate. Lee said Roe v. Wade was a “legal fiction cut from whole cloth by the imagination of a few Supreme Court justices.” He said the power to set abortion law was rightfully returned to the states. States, he said, can achieve the most consensus on the issue and protect the most babies.

Foreign Policy

The US needs to increase its naval fleet and invest in updated intercontinental ballistic missile systems, Lee said. He also favors bilateral trade deals with other Asian countries to offset China. More free trade, he said, would make China less belligerent. “We also need a Republican counterbalance to a president who isn’t all there,” Lee said, noting that Biden has recently talked about Armageddon. McMullin said the US needs to strengthen its relationship with other free nations and that trade is critical, especially in the Pacific region. It also favors investments in new technologies. “We need to elect leaders and representatives of this liberal state who will stand up to foreign dictators and not allow them,” McMullin said. McMullin said Lee is the only member of Utah’s congressional delegation not blacklisted by Russian President Vladimir Putin. Li replied that he doesn’t know why Russia hasn’t blacklisted him, but “I’d like to be blacklisted there,” adding that China has banned him for life.

Student loans

Lee said the federal government should get out of college loans. Biden, he said, has no power to forgive student debt. The only reason the government took out student loans was because Democrats wanted to fund Obamacare, he said. It borrows money at a lower rate and lends it out at a higher rate, “milking American students across the country,” Lee said. Student loans, he said, should return to the private sector. McMullin said the federal government has played a “tragic” role in driving up the cost of college, which is now out of reach for many Americans, including the middle class. He said he disagrees with Lee that the federal government should be out of student loans, but needs to be more careful. He favors debt forgiveness for public service workers such as teachers, police and members of the military.

Inflation

McMullin said both political parties are to blame for inflation. “Where was Sen. Lee when President Trump was spending recklessly in an expansionary period?” he said. McMullin said he would work across party lines to get spending under control, rather than simply vote no. Lee said inflation is the result of reckless federal spending. He said he has been a major opponent of excessive spending during his time in the Senate. Democrats, with control of Congress and the White House, have taken it to a whole new level, he said. “We thought it was too much of a bell.

Campaign Ads

Except for one ad pointing out that McMullin voted for Biden, Lee said his ads were about himself. McMullin, he said, “refused” to talk about ideas, but is asking voters to give him “blind trust.” “I talk about my ideas in my ads. I would suggest you do the same,” Lee said. Ads from outside groups, he said, don’t use the same messages he does. “Yours are offensive hits, hit pieces every one of them.” McMullin told a “far-right group” that Lee was responsible for running an ad that made up his words to say something he didn’t, referring to a Club for Growth ad. “Senator Lee, why can’t you condemn it? Do you need the lies?” McMullin said. McMullin said the ads for his part were “very fair” when talking about Lee’s Senate votes. x

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Dennis Roboy Dennis Romboy is an editor and reporter for the Deseret News. He has covered a variety of beats over the years, including state and local government, social issues and the courts. A Utah native, Romboy earned a bachelor’s degree in journalism from the University of Utah. He likes cycling, snowboarding and running.